please don’t try to learn this on social media. read an actual long-form book. you will not understand this based on social media interactions; I promise you. social media is not for learning beyond the most shallow surface information. it’s for light dopamine release and doom scrolling while you get your mind shredded by influence ops from all (but mostly fasch) directions and indulge your worst mental illnesses.
Almost funny that you suggest him while he was instrumentalized by the fascists as a fascist.
It’s still strange that you stress punching nazis while you have a deeper understanding of their mentality. Don’t people fall back to group strength when they feel vulnerable themselves? Punching Nazis will confirm that vulnerability.
he was instrumentalized by nazis because he used one word they liked, and had vibes they wanted to appropriate, and knew their people wouldn’t actually read it-except his sister/editor, who absolutely became a nazi a couple decades after his death, as soon as that was a thing that you could be. he actually explicitly dismissed the underlying (and extremely silly) basis of the master race thing in one of his books, despite dying in the year 1900. basically saying ‘your virtue comes not from your ancestry, not from the past, but by working your ass off to build and become more than you were. don’t be a little bitch who hides in other peoples accomplishments, real or imagined.’ the phrasing in the translation I read was something like ‘we are the hyperboreans, you and I, reader, who endeavor to somethingorother’ and it would take so much education on popular batshit 19th century estoteric racist cope to explain that one line to you, like one of those weird references in a jane austen novel that you need to either be of the time or a historian or a complete no-life nerd to get, and it’s absolutely not worth it unless you like learning about just how dumb europeans were at the time, but it is also explicitly the basis of the whole ‘aryan master race’ thing, which he explicitly calls bullshit on decades before the concept of fascism, or the war that birthed it, was a glimmer in d’anunzio’s eye, by saying that, basically, you get cool new stuff with hard work and intellectual courage, not jacking off to your grandpa’s high school photos. I think it’s in either “beyond good and evil” or “the antichrist” (neitzsche was not a fan of blood cults) if you want to read more. he WAS a 19th century elitist painfully german asshole, and he does explicitly state that he’s hard to read on purpose. so take what he says with some salt, but there’s good stuff in there.
it’s part of how fascists consume information. you skim and look for the stuff that confirms what you already believe, no matter how much you need to contort cherry pick or cut out whole paragraphs between words or just totally misremember stuff. it’s solipsistic as fuck. by design, if you’ve ever read the shitty book the german government put hitler up in a castle to write.
the punching in this context is a metaphor for shooting, as I said. it’s a whole identity thing about being the winners. I’m personally of the opinion that leaving ugly survivors is better than clean corpses, but I think enough of either would do the trick, and I’m not sure which is easier, being, as I concluded earlier today, reverse miyamoto musashi-bad at violence, great at skin care.
sure, you could try appeasing them, or soft approaches, but they’ve hit a critical mass where, if that were ever possible, it certainly no longer is. they need to be killed. they are solipsists, they have no concept of truth, and they don’t see you as human. they have made themselves into subhuman things that cannot be reasoned with, because they have no more reason. they cannot be negotiated with, because they do not live in the same reality as you. they cannot even be held to a treaty, because they do not have a conception of ‘truth’ or you-as-person; it does not and can not exist in their totalizing world view, which is hostile to contradictory information. it’s kind of terrifying that a person can become so entirely not a person anymore without substantial damage to bodily function. if you want to understand fascism, there are several scholars to start on. arendt is a popular one, if you don’t want to get too commie (and if you do, you already have favorites). if you want something absolutely shitlib friendly, ecco isn’t completely wrong even if he has to avoid describing a lot of it so he doesn’t have to look in any mirrors, but please read more than his 14 points.
So you see fascism as something else than colonialism of white people, as something with a spiritual component.
That solipsism, isn’t that something that also happens in consumerism and nowadays internet entertainment bubbles?
I would like to argue that it’s worthwhile to figure out how to reach people in that mental state because fascism and that state of mind are so ubiquitous that violence cannot win.
Don’t those scholars have any suggestions beyond violence?
movement in that direction is present a lot of places. do you know what the word means?
worth
can’t unmix the drink, babe. sometimes, the best solution is a bullet. once you get past a certain point nazi, you cannot become a human again.
scholars have suggestions beyond violence
yeah, and they all boil down to ‘prevention’ and debates over the amount of violence once you fail to do literally any prevention. once you hit a critical mass of nazis, you gotta kill the nazis. they can’t be cured. my perspective doesn’t precisely match any of them, but once you get to this point, all the options other than violence are already off the table. ask me a decade ago, maybe there’s another way out. but the hour is fucking late, dude.
Not looking it up, it’s a worldview where only the person themselve is valid. Kind of like hedonism but without the joy or like utilitarism but without the concept for people.
they can’t be cured.
I like to think of zombie movies as reflections on that problem. They imprint that there is no healing.
once you get to this point
Is it space or matter? You cannot unmix a drink but you can distill the alcohol and you can reverse a position unless it’s near a black whole.
If we cannot reverse nazis then we lack enough knowledge of the mind. There must be a reason that somebody is rejecting truth, reality and the existance of other people. If we can identify that and show that it is irreversable then punching may be necessary. Otherwise we have found our own way of ignoring humans.
Think Musk and his daughter. It’s all political but at the core it’s hurt feelings.
Where else? Academics won’t risk their career for it. Maybe we meet again one day and figure out a bit. This was very interesting. Thank you for the conversation.
Thanks a lot. By chance, do you know a lemmy channel where content in that area is posted?
please don’t try to learn this on social media. read an actual long-form book. you will not understand this based on social media interactions; I promise you. social media is not for learning beyond the most shallow surface information. it’s for light dopamine release and doom scrolling while you get your mind shredded by influence ops from all (but mostly fasch) directions and indulge your worst mental illnesses.
Exactly.
I will look into that Nietzsche though.
Almost funny that you suggest him while he was instrumentalized by the fascists as a fascist.
It’s still strange that you stress punching nazis while you have a deeper understanding of their mentality. Don’t people fall back to group strength when they feel vulnerable themselves? Punching Nazis will confirm that vulnerability.
he was instrumentalized by nazis because he used one word they liked, and had vibes they wanted to appropriate, and knew their people wouldn’t actually read it-except his sister/editor, who absolutely became a nazi a couple decades after his death, as soon as that was a thing that you could be. he actually explicitly dismissed the underlying (and extremely silly) basis of the master race thing in one of his books, despite dying in the year 1900. basically saying ‘your virtue comes not from your ancestry, not from the past, but by working your ass off to build and become more than you were. don’t be a little bitch who hides in other peoples accomplishments, real or imagined.’ the phrasing in the translation I read was something like ‘we are the hyperboreans, you and I, reader, who endeavor to somethingorother’ and it would take so much education on popular batshit 19th century estoteric racist cope to explain that one line to you, like one of those weird references in a jane austen novel that you need to either be of the time or a historian or a complete no-life nerd to get, and it’s absolutely not worth it unless you like learning about just how dumb europeans were at the time, but it is also explicitly the basis of the whole ‘aryan master race’ thing, which he explicitly calls bullshit on decades before the concept of fascism, or the war that birthed it, was a glimmer in d’anunzio’s eye, by saying that, basically, you get cool new stuff with hard work and intellectual courage, not jacking off to your grandpa’s high school photos. I think it’s in either “beyond good and evil” or “the antichrist” (neitzsche was not a fan of blood cults) if you want to read more. he WAS a 19th century elitist painfully german asshole, and he does explicitly state that he’s hard to read on purpose. so take what he says with some salt, but there’s good stuff in there.
it’s part of how fascists consume information. you skim and look for the stuff that confirms what you already believe, no matter how much you need to contort cherry pick or cut out whole paragraphs between words or just totally misremember stuff. it’s solipsistic as fuck. by design, if you’ve ever read the shitty book the german government put hitler up in a castle to write.
the punching in this context is a metaphor for shooting, as I said. it’s a whole identity thing about being the winners. I’m personally of the opinion that leaving ugly survivors is better than clean corpses, but I think enough of either would do the trick, and I’m not sure which is easier, being, as I concluded earlier today, reverse miyamoto musashi-bad at violence, great at skin care.
sure, you could try appeasing them, or soft approaches, but they’ve hit a critical mass where, if that were ever possible, it certainly no longer is. they need to be killed. they are solipsists, they have no concept of truth, and they don’t see you as human. they have made themselves into subhuman things that cannot be reasoned with, because they have no more reason. they cannot be negotiated with, because they do not live in the same reality as you. they cannot even be held to a treaty, because they do not have a conception of ‘truth’ or you-as-person; it does not and can not exist in their totalizing world view, which is hostile to contradictory information. it’s kind of terrifying that a person can become so entirely not a person anymore without substantial damage to bodily function. if you want to understand fascism, there are several scholars to start on. arendt is a popular one, if you don’t want to get too commie (and if you do, you already have favorites). if you want something absolutely shitlib friendly, ecco isn’t completely wrong even if he has to avoid describing a lot of it so he doesn’t have to look in any mirrors, but please read more than his 14 points.
Well, I have watched that monk movie.
So you see fascism as something else than colonialism of white people, as something with a spiritual component.
That solipsism, isn’t that something that also happens in consumerism and nowadays internet entertainment bubbles?
I would like to argue that it’s worthwhile to figure out how to reach people in that mental state because fascism and that state of mind are so ubiquitous that violence cannot win.
Don’t those scholars have any suggestions beyond violence?
no such thing.
movement in that direction is present a lot of places. do you know what the word means?
can’t unmix the drink, babe. sometimes, the best solution is a bullet. once you get past a certain point nazi, you cannot become a human again.
yeah, and they all boil down to ‘prevention’ and debates over the amount of violence once you fail to do literally any prevention. once you hit a critical mass of nazis, you gotta kill the nazis. they can’t be cured. my perspective doesn’t precisely match any of them, but once you get to this point, all the options other than violence are already off the table. ask me a decade ago, maybe there’s another way out. but the hour is fucking late, dude.
Not looking it up, it’s a worldview where only the person themselve is valid. Kind of like hedonism but without the joy or like utilitarism but without the concept for people.
I like to think of zombie movies as reflections on that problem. They imprint that there is no healing.
Is it space or matter? You cannot unmix a drink but you can distill the alcohol and you can reverse a position unless it’s near a black whole.
If we cannot reverse nazis then we lack enough knowledge of the mind. There must be a reason that somebody is rejecting truth, reality and the existance of other people. If we can identify that and show that it is irreversable then punching may be necessary. Otherwise we have found our own way of ignoring humans.
Think Musk and his daughter. It’s all political but at the core it’s hurt feelings.
you’re not going to figure it out arguing on social media. there are people I would love to have this argument with, but you aren’t one of them yet.
Where else? Academics won’t risk their career for it. Maybe we meet again one day and figure out a bit. This was very interesting. Thank you for the conversation.