Eh, I feel like the important part of decentralization right now is the potential to migrate.
Like, how many social media sites actually last 5 years before shitting the bed?
If admins of an instance get shitty, it’s trivial to move to a new one. Traditional social media you’d have to migrate to a completely different site, with different features, layout, and other stuff.
People won’t all wait for the same reason, as the biggest becomes actually “big” we’ll see them start to fracture.
There just wasn’t enough people on fediverse to start out like that.
So think of Blue sky, World, and all those other “big” instances that still don’t have that many users as the egg for the future fediverse that actually has enough users to be proper decentralized
at least when an AP instance goes titsup people can hop on another instance. thats not currently possible with bluesky. to me that puts AP a step above AT
On Mastodon yes, it is also compatible with a few other software like Akkoma. Your followers will get a notification that you moved and will automatically follow the new account. Works very seamlessly in my experience.
Some people do not recognize questions anymore. You write a lot of stuff that nobody’s interested in, you could have just said: “no”.
Edit, this was based on wrong information provided by @givesomefucks:
And that means that if I am following a person because they write useful things that I’m interested in or that I need for my work, I will loose connection when they suddenly move. That has nothing to do with what you call nonsense; it is a practical consequence of the Fediverse not having migration built in. Fediverse basically offers to create a new account, that is not migration.
Yes, in your user settings there should be a button to Export/Import. I think it grabs the communities you subscribe to and any comments that you’ve starred. The comments you’ve made won’t come with.
Hmm thanks. It looks like you can set up a server with their protocol but it doesnt use activitypub. So it is technically federated but its not part of the whole mastodon/lemmy/pixelfed/etc fediverse.
This is really shitty and just creates a whole lot of unnecessary work for everyone if they want to reach bluesky users. If you were slightly more cynical you could say they skipped over the Embrace step and are already at the Extend step, trying to split the fediverse.
I wouldn’t attribute malice for… not using the same protocol others are? And the unnecessary work is posting on Bluesky too instead of just the fediverse?
Twitter was never part of the fediverse, so moving to Bluesky, even though it’s not on the same protocol, is still a step in the right direction. They’re not taking anything away from the fediverse… Well, they might be taking some users away because they’ve hit the critical mass of userbase to let people see what they want to see instead of the one-size-fits-all Linux Star Trek Leftism blend we’ve got over here, but people who are tired of that would be leaving Lemmy eventually anyways.
Its like Apple refusing to use USBC properly. Yeah it might be legal and not clearly malice, but its so stupid that its almost worse than malice. At some point when the standards have been sufficiently established and proven to be working, then not using them becomes basically malicious.
Like, the only way what you’re saying makes sense, is if mods had to host their own communities. Someone has to host shit and be liable. Right now that’s instance admins. If they didn’t exist, you’re just calling whoever hosts and is liable a different name than admin, they still do the same thing.
You’re just zooming in another level on it. Nothing changes.
The only way what I’m saying doesn’t make sense is if you don’t understand what I’m talking about.
Look at Reddit before the API bullshit. Tons of apps all having access to the same content, the apps devs didn’t have control over what subreddit you had access to, they only have control over the UI used to access it and you could switch from one app to another, always using the same credentials because the frontend was independent from the backend.
Now imagine if the backend, the data storage (Reddit’s servers), were decentralized. People would just pool resources to store the content and would have control over what they decide to store on their servers but wouldn’t be able to influence the user experience because users would just be pulling content from all the servers.
So you could add 10TB of storage and not accept NSFW content, you would run filter tools to get rid of what might pass through the cracks (just like admins need to do now even on NSFW content free instances), but that would be it, your storage space would just be 10TB out of thousands of TB of database hosted on a ton of servers, open to the public.
Dumb backend, smart frontend. Users curate their experiences themselves (just like on Reddit) and are guaranteed to have access to all the federated content no matter which frontend they use because admins are taken out of the equation. Mods still exist, but they only have power over their communities, they are the people with the most power from a user perspective. There’s no more instances, just one huge decentralized database accessible via a bunch of websites and apps and users would choose the one which offers them the UI/UX they prefer.
People would just pool resources to store the content and would have control over what they decide to store on their servers but wouldn’t be able to influence the user experience because users would just be pulling content from all the servers.
How do you think they’d choose?
If no one is hosting a picture, or even a text post, how do they see it to decide if they want to host it?
And if it’s already there, why does it need someone else to host it?
It just can’t be both, and it kind of feels like you’re trying to slap something together to circumvent what I pointed out about a host being legally liable for what they host…
you would run filter tools to get rid of what might pass through the cracks (just like admins need to do now even on NSFW content free instances
What do you mean by “get rid of” that isn’t what you’re complaining admins do?
Like, I 100% get what you’re trying to say, explaining more in depth isn’t making a difference. I’m saying that what you’re suggesting doesn’t make sense, not that I just can’t understand it.
It doesn’t logically make sense.
Edit:
As a thought experiment the closest to what you want would be a centralized server that just has “placeholders”, I’m assuming you like crypto, so fuck it, we can make these block chains
Each placeholder only holds the location of the server of the account who made the post.
So when you browse, the place holder queries the account who made the post and serves it thru the client.
For comments you could have the person holding the post hold the placeholders for every comment, the comments themselves hosted by the account who made the comment.
That is feasible but there’s a lot of issues that’ll come up.
But I think that’s what you’re wanting, or at least something close to that and actually plausible. Anyway, this would result in every individual hosting their own content, and no one else being liable for anything someone else ever says/posts.
Except for backup purposes, why do you think I’m talking about everyone hosting everything? Hell, I hope you realize that the way Lemmy works now, instances are just copying other instances content and the issue you’re talking about is a reality that could be circumvented by the solution I’m proposing?
You realize that’s already how websites work, the content is spread over tens or hundreds of servers, they’re just all owned by the same company.
What I mean by “get rid of” is that server admins need to use tools to clean up illegal content from their servers. Lemmy admins are doing that, right now, if they don’t want to end up with CSAM on their server, even if they host an instance that doesn’t allow NSFW content. Without using tools to clean up their server, NSFW content will end up on it.
Eh, I feel like the important part of decentralization right now is the potential to migrate.
Like, how many social media sites actually last 5 years before shitting the bed?
If admins of an instance get shitty, it’s trivial to move to a new one. Traditional social media you’d have to migrate to a completely different site, with different features, layout, and other stuff.
People won’t all wait for the same reason, as the biggest becomes actually “big” we’ll see them start to fracture.
There just wasn’t enough people on fediverse to start out like that.
So think of Blue sky, World, and all those other “big” instances that still don’t have that many users as the egg for the future fediverse that actually has enough users to be proper decentralized
at least when an AP instance goes titsup people can hop on another instance. thats not currently possible with bluesky. to me that puts AP a step above AT
Is migrating really practical? Will your followers automatically follow you on your new server?
On Mastodon yes, it is also compatible with a few other software like Akkoma. Your followers will get a notification that you moved and will automatically follow the new account. Works very seamlessly in my experience.
Thanks a lot, very helpful
On Mastodon it’s very easy and it brings your followers over
It offers possibilities, which are infinitely more probable than systems without such possibilities.
Lol.
Buddy if I have any followers I’d be happy to leave them behind.
But I’m not into that twitter/Instagram/Tiktok nonsense.
If someone was, I’d assume they’d just leave a last post saying:
They don’t need to jump instances if they’re federated, they just need to follow a new account.
Some people do not recognize questions anymore. You write a lot of stuff that nobody’s interested in, you could have just said: “no”.
Edit, this was based on wrong information provided by @givesomefucks:
And that means that if I am following a person because they write useful things that I’m interested in or that I need for my work, I will loose connection when they suddenly move. That has nothing to do with what you call nonsense; it is a practical consequence of the Fediverse not having migration built in. Fediverse basically offers to create a new account, that is not migration.Unless…
I honestly didn’t type that much, less than your reply actually…
But it’s ironic you complained about the length of a short comment, yet obviously didn’t read the majority of the comment.
Have a nice life bub, feel free to “follow” or not if you want, but don’t expect replys anymore
Is it possible to move all of you subscriptions and comments to a new Lemmy instance?
Yes, in your user settings there should be a button to Export/Import. I think it grabs the communities you subscribe to and any comments that you’ve starred. The comments you’ve made won’t come with.
Probably a deal breaker for many
What about block lists? Are those transferred?
I think so? Just go click the export button yourself and look through the file.
Subscriptions yeah, you can download it with some settings and upload to a new account on most (all?) instances.
Comments tho I’m not sure what you mean. But I can’t think of any interpretation where you’d be able to migrate those.
I think you misunderstand. Bluesky is completely non federated. It has nothing to do with the fediverse and there is no ability to migrate.
Not sure if your information is outdated or if you’re using a different definition of federate, but this blog post says they have support for a degree of federation: https://bsky.social/about/blog/02-22-2024-open-social-web
Hmm thanks. It looks like you can set up a server with their protocol but it doesnt use activitypub. So it is technically federated but its not part of the whole mastodon/lemmy/pixelfed/etc fediverse.
This is really shitty and just creates a whole lot of unnecessary work for everyone if they want to reach bluesky users. If you were slightly more cynical you could say they skipped over the Embrace step and are already at the Extend step, trying to split the fediverse.
I wouldn’t attribute malice for… not using the same protocol others are? And the unnecessary work is posting on Bluesky too instead of just the fediverse?
Twitter was never part of the fediverse, so moving to Bluesky, even though it’s not on the same protocol, is still a step in the right direction. They’re not taking anything away from the fediverse… Well, they might be taking some users away because they’ve hit the critical mass of userbase to let people see what they want to see instead of the one-size-fits-all Linux Star Trek Leftism blend we’ve got over here, but people who are tired of that would be leaving Lemmy eventually anyways.
Its like Apple refusing to use USBC properly. Yeah it might be legal and not clearly malice, but its so stupid that its almost worse than malice. At some point when the standards have been sufficiently established and proven to be working, then not using them becomes basically malicious.
Well sure, but the fediverse is nowhere near that ubiquitous.
Or we could simply not have admins by decentralizing the backend separately from the frontend.
What?
You know an instance is like, a physical server…
Right?
Like, the only way what you’re saying makes sense, is if mods had to host their own communities. Someone has to host shit and be liable. Right now that’s instance admins. If they didn’t exist, you’re just calling whoever hosts and is liable a different name than admin, they still do the same thing.
You’re just zooming in another level on it. Nothing changes.
The only way what I’m saying doesn’t make sense is if you don’t understand what I’m talking about.
Look at Reddit before the API bullshit. Tons of apps all having access to the same content, the apps devs didn’t have control over what subreddit you had access to, they only have control over the UI used to access it and you could switch from one app to another, always using the same credentials because the frontend was independent from the backend.
Now imagine if the backend, the data storage (Reddit’s servers), were decentralized. People would just pool resources to store the content and would have control over what they decide to store on their servers but wouldn’t be able to influence the user experience because users would just be pulling content from all the servers.
So you could add 10TB of storage and not accept NSFW content, you would run filter tools to get rid of what might pass through the cracks (just like admins need to do now even on NSFW content free instances), but that would be it, your storage space would just be 10TB out of thousands of TB of database hosted on a ton of servers, open to the public.
Dumb backend, smart frontend. Users curate their experiences themselves (just like on Reddit) and are guaranteed to have access to all the federated content no matter which frontend they use because admins are taken out of the equation. Mods still exist, but they only have power over their communities, they are the people with the most power from a user perspective. There’s no more instances, just one huge decentralized database accessible via a bunch of websites and apps and users would choose the one which offers them the UI/UX they prefer.
How do you think they’d choose?
If no one is hosting a picture, or even a text post, how do they see it to decide if they want to host it?
And if it’s already there, why does it need someone else to host it?
It just can’t be both, and it kind of feels like you’re trying to slap something together to circumvent what I pointed out about a host being legally liable for what they host…
What do you mean by “get rid of” that isn’t what you’re complaining admins do?
Like, I 100% get what you’re trying to say, explaining more in depth isn’t making a difference. I’m saying that what you’re suggesting doesn’t make sense, not that I just can’t understand it.
It doesn’t logically make sense.
Edit:
As a thought experiment the closest to what you want would be a centralized server that just has “placeholders”, I’m assuming you like crypto, so fuck it, we can make these block chains
Each placeholder only holds the location of the server of the account who made the post.
So when you browse, the place holder queries the account who made the post and serves it thru the client.
For comments you could have the person holding the post hold the placeholders for every comment, the comments themselves hosted by the account who made the comment.
That is feasible but there’s a lot of issues that’ll come up.
But I think that’s what you’re wanting, or at least something close to that and actually plausible. Anyway, this would result in every individual hosting their own content, and no one else being liable for anything someone else ever says/posts.
Except for backup purposes, why do you think I’m talking about everyone hosting everything? Hell, I hope you realize that the way Lemmy works now, instances are just copying other instances content and the issue you’re talking about is a reality that could be circumvented by the solution I’m proposing?
You realize that’s already how websites work, the content is spread over tens or hundreds of servers, they’re just all owned by the same company.
What I mean by “get rid of” is that server admins need to use tools to clean up illegal content from their servers. Lemmy admins are doing that, right now, if they don’t want to end up with CSAM on their server, even if they host an instance that doesn’t allow NSFW content. Without using tools to clean up their server, NSFW content will end up on it.