Some people insist there’s no “correct” order for the basic arithmetic operations. And worse, some people insist the correct order is parenthesis first, then left to right.
Hopefully you can see where their confusion might come from, though. PEMDAS is more P-E-MD-AS. If you have a bunch of unparenthesized addition and subtraction, left to right is correct. A lot of like, firstgrader math problems are just basic problems that are usually left to right (but should have some extras to highlight PEMDAS somewhere I’d hope).
So they’re mostly telling you they only remember as much math as a small child that barely passed math exercizes.
True, but as with many things, something has to be the rule for processing it. For many teachers as I’ve heard, order of appearance is ‘the rule’ when commutative properties apply. … at least until algebra demands simplification, but that’s a different topic.
No, you completely misunderstood my point. My point is not to describe all valid interpretations of the commutative property, but the one most slow kids will hear.
OFC the actual rule is the order doesn’t matter, but kids that don’t pick up on the nuance of the commutative property will still remember, “order of appearance is fine”.
Yes thank you! If you have a sum it is really great to order it in a way that makes it better to ad in your head and i think that lots of people do that without thinking about it.
X=2+3+1+6+2+4+7+5
X=2+3+5+4+6+7+1+2
X=5+5 + 10 +7+1+2
X=10 + 10 + 7+3
X=10 + 10 + 10
I did not flip any signs, merely reversed the order in which the operations are written out. If you read the right side from right to left, it has the same meaning as the left side from left to right.
Hell, the convention that the sign is on the left is also just a convention, as is the idea that the smallest digit is on the right (which should be a familiar issue to programmers, if you look up big endian vs little endian)
If that’s your idea of reversing the order, then you’re not talking about the same thing as SpaceCadet@feddit.nl. They’re talking about the order of operations and the associativity/commutativity property. You’re talking about the order of the symbols.
Huh I just remembered the orders of arithmetic but parentheses trump all so do them first (I use them in even the calculator app). Mean I assume that’s that that says but never learned that acronym is all. Now figuring out categories of words;really does my noodle in sometimes. Cause some words can be either depending on context. Math when it’s written out has (mostly) the same answer. I say mostly because somewhere in the back of my brain there are some scenarios where something more complicated than straight arithmetic can come out oddly but written as such should come out the same.
I mean, arithmetic order is just convention, not a mathematical truth. But that convention works in the way we know, yes, because that’s what’s… well… convention
Social conventions are real, well defined things. Some mathematicians like to pretend they aren’t, while using a truckload of them; that’s a hypocritical opinion.
That’s not to say you can’t change them. But all of basic arithmetic is a social convention, you can redefine the numbers and operations any time you want too.
Some people insist there’s no “correct” order for the basic arithmetic operations. And worse, some people insist the correct order is parenthesis first, then left to right.
Both of those sets of people are wrong.
And those people are wrong
As per Maths textbooks
All Maths textbooks are wrong?? 😂
Hopefully you can see where their confusion might come from, though. PEMDAS is more P-E-MD-AS. If you have a bunch of unparenthesized addition and subtraction, left to right is correct. A lot of like, firstgrader math problems are just basic problems that are usually left to right (but should have some extras to highlight PEMDAS somewhere I’d hope).
So they’re mostly telling you they only remember as much math as a small child that barely passed math exercizes.
You can do addition and subtraction in any order and it’s still correct
If you have a bunch of unparenthesized addition and subtraction, left to right doesn’t matter.
1 + 2 + 3 = 3 + 2 + 1
True, but as with many things, something has to be the rule for processing it. For many teachers as I’ve heard, order of appearance is ‘the rule’ when commutative properties apply. … at least until algebra demands simplification, but that’s a different topic.
That’s because students often make mistakes with signs when they do it in a different order, so we tell them to stick to left to right
Well the rule is: any order goes. Summation is commutative.
No, you completely misunderstood my point. My point is not to describe all valid interpretations of the commutative property, but the one most slow kids will hear.
OFC the actual rule is the order doesn’t matter, but kids that don’t pick up on the nuance of the commutative property will still remember, “order of appearance is fine”.
Yes thank you! If you have a sum it is really great to order it in a way that makes it better to ad in your head and i think that lots of people do that without thinking about it. X=2+3+1+6+2+4+7+5 X=2+3+5+4+6+7+1+2 X=5+5 + 10 +7+1+2 X=10 + 10 + 7+3 X=10 + 10 + 10
Right, because 1-2-3=3-2-1.
No, 1-2-3=-3-2+1. You changed the signs on the 1 and the 3.
You flipped the sign on the 3 and 1.
I did not flip any signs, merely reversed the order in which the operations are written out. If you read the right side from right to left, it has the same meaning as the left side from left to right.
Hell, the convention that the sign is on the left is also just a convention, as is the idea that the smallest digit is on the right (which should be a familiar issue to programmers, if you look up big endian vs little endian)
Yes you did! 😂
No, merely reversing the order gives -3-2+1 - you changed the signs on the 1 and 3.
Starts with -3, which you changed to +3
when you don’t change any of the signs it does 😂
Nope, it’s a rule of Maths, Left Associativity.
If that’s your idea of reversing the order, then you’re not talking about the same thing as SpaceCadet@feddit.nl. They’re talking about the order of operations and the associativity/commutativity property. You’re talking about the order of the symbols.
PE(MD)(AS)
Now just remember to account for those parentheses first…
Those Brackets don’t matter. I don’t know why people insist it does
Huh I just remembered the orders of arithmetic but parentheses trump all so do them first (I use them in even the calculator app). Mean I assume that’s that that says but never learned that acronym is all. Now figuring out categories of words;really does my noodle in sometimes. Cause some words can be either depending on context. Math when it’s written out has (mostly) the same answer. I say mostly because somewhere in the back of my brain there are some scenarios where something more complicated than straight arithmetic can come out oddly but written as such should come out the same.
I mean, arithmetic order is just convention, not a mathematical truth. But that convention works in the way we know, yes, because that’s what’s… well… convention
Nope, rules arising from the definition of the operators in the first place.
It most certainly is a mathematical truth!
The mnemonics are conventions, the rules are rules
Social conventions are real, well defined things. Some mathematicians like to pretend they aren’t, while using a truckload of them; that’s a hypocritical opinion.
That’s not to say you can’t change them. But all of basic arithmetic is a social convention, you can redefine the numbers and operations any time you want too.
So are the laws of nature, that Maths arises from
No, you making false accusations against Mathematicians is a strawman
You can change the conventions, you cannot change the rules
Nope, law of nature. Even several animals know how to count.
And you end up back where you started, since you can’t change the laws of nature
Well, this is just a writing standard that is globally agreed on,
The writing rules are defined by humans not by natural force
(That one thing and another thing are two things, is a rule from nature, as comparison)
No, it’s a universal rule of Maths
Maths is for describing natural forces, and is subject to those laws
Yep, there are even some animals who understand that, and all of Maths is based upon it.