I realise that Google places ads in the native Gmail environment. However, when using a third party front end to embed the Google services, how does the company make money off that? When I use Thunderbird to access Gmail or the Google Calendar or when I map my Google Drive to the file explorer, how can Google profit from this kind of use?
The knowledge of what you do, where you work, who you talk to, what you eat, who your doctor is, where you shop, everywhere you go, what diseases or disorders you have, what kind of clothes you wear, what your family life is like, etc, are incredibly valuable to a company trying to show you ads. It doesn’t matter if you don’t see them through Gmail. Google owns so much of the internet, you’ll see them eventually.
Get your email from an email company, not an ad company.
They probably make more money selling data collected from its use through any means, than they do selling ads in their own apps.
Remember: If the thing is free, you are the actual product getting sold.
Metadata.
It knows who you are talking to from the to and from fields, possibly the context based on the subject, if the do scan the email contents then they will know what you are interested in.
Gather that info with your search history it can sell targeted advertising.
So, it’s basically a loss leader in this scenario to feed other sevices like the ad network?
For personal Gmail yes.
Yes. About 75% of Google’s revenue is from ads. Most (all?) of their free products exist to feed the advertising business in one way or another.
They’re scanning the email contents.
and your google drive contents.
and everything else you send through their services.
That’s why I am no longer using their services like Gmail and Google Maps. I jumped tot alternatives, much recommended.
What are you using in lieu of Google Maps?
I use GoogleStreetMap for GPS, I’ve replaced Gmail with StartMail and instead of Google Calendar I use TimeTree for now. Might need to find a real privacy related calendar, anyone suggestions?
I was so confused by your first one until I clicked the link and realized you meant “OpenStreetView” instead of “GoogleStreetView” 🤣
Magic Earth is amazing
I have been using Organic Maps for many years. They are offline-first, and use OpenStreetMap for the data. Since it’s OpenStreetMap, quality might vary by country and even city.
If you’re looking for more commercial app, HERE WeGo / Here Maps has traffic and online accounts.
How’s the realtime traffic on those? I’m currently using magic earth and the routing is mostly okay compared to GMaps, but the traffic data is frequently stale.
TBH I haven’t used traffic feature (or WeGo, really) enough to know if it’s good.
Google does not use the content of Gmail messages for ad targeting. Lots of misinformation here.
it’s interesting that you added a qualifier that I did not, to justify calling my statement “misinformation”
they are scanning your data. and while they may not be exploiting it for ad-targeting… they are almost certainly exploiting it. That’s their business model: Scrape every ounce of data they can and exploit it every which way they can.
“Exploiting” means what, exactly? And what evidence do you have for it?
The content of your email is not used for targeting or profiling, it’s not being sold. Clear enough? The qualifier is because some “well ackshually” will point out that they have to scan it for spam filtering, virus detecting, adding calendar events, etc. These are features of the product, and I think labeling them exploitation would be a bit rich.
Exploiting means exactly what it means.
Once they have the scan, that’s their data. Of course they’re going to be using it for other things. The excuses they give, are of course, the foot in the door.
It’s a “bit rich” that you think you’re not the product.
Remember: if you’re not paying for a service, you’re the product.
They harvest your data for a variety of reasons. 1) they pair your data with your broader Google profile (including search results, ad clicks, website views, etc) to better deliver targeted ads. 2) they train their AI (although that’s an indirect revenue stream, and much more recent).
Remember: if you’re paying for a service, you’re also likely the product.
Check the privacy policy. It’s about all you can do these days, and hope it doesn’t change post fact.
Remember: if you’re not paying for a service, you’re the product.
So… Tor network and Signal?
Wikipedia?
Lemmy?
(Not all free services are evil lol 😉)
I pay $10 a month to Wikipedia.
None of those are business though, they are non profits
Protonmail (and other proton services) has a Free Tier, and it’s company, Proton AG, were For Profit for a long time (until recently).
Tutanota (now known as Tuta) also has a Free Tier, and is still, to this day, a For Profit company.
Bitwarden allow you to store unlimited passwords, they are a For Profit compant.
Standard Notes let you have Unlimited Notes, and was For Profit until they got bought by Proton
Notesnook also allows Unlimited Notes, and is For Profit.
Don’t forget that most people do not use external applications such as Thunderbird. You’re a blip on the radar.
they use your data to train their ai. they show you ads on other platforms and webs. they are fucking your privacy
I recommend the book The Age of Surveillance Capitalism by Shoshana Zuboff. It’s from 2018 but it is still very applicable. It explains what big tech is doing/trying to do with your data and how they intend to make money.
It’s info dense and may take some time to get through but it is very eye opening even for someone like myself that felt pretty well aware of their tactics and intentions before reading the book.
Shoshana Zuboff really was ahead of its time. So many people who were privacy conscious and therefore thought they were clever by simply thinking that Google makes money by only selling your data completely missed the scale of manipulation and control big tech has (myself included).
Google/big tech doesn’t sell your data. Google/big tech sells advertisers predictions of your behaviour, a highly refined, processed version of your data. Advertisers cannot purchase your data, only “impressions” or “views.” In an extra sinister twist, Google/big tech then uses it’s resources to manipulate you in ways such that their predictions become true.
This is why their predictions are the best, because after making them, they have a financial incentive to manipulate them into being true. It is why we naturally see more and more polarization, because after Google has sold the prediction that you will engage is a specific type of content (e.g. right ring rabbit holes), it is financially incentivised to make that a reality, and therefore further push you in that direction, to make their prediction true.
How to “improve” prediction using behavior modification - ScienceDirect - https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0169207022001066
These data allows
- To train AI model, which is considered as a gold mine today
- To do targetted ads (Yes we do have blocker and so on but still)
Could be a loss leader to suppress competition and own the market, getting you into their other paid services. They probably also profit from your data either directly or through things like training AI.
Every little bit your device sends to google is being used. Your IP, mac address, email contents, cookies (now kinda phased out by fingerprinting), phone number, etc
Many people pay for additional storage on Google.
Plus tying your online identity to Google means you’re more likely to use their other services.
I think ads on Gmail are also a thing of the past, aren’t they? The answer to your question is: no income. But you’re having a constant time share lunch with Google to actually buy a share in a beachfront condo. By which I mean subscribe to their cloud and AI plan. Or YouTube. Or their business suite. Etc. And then they have converted you to a paying customer. The free service is an investment to get you hooked and then paying.
And in the meantime they can collect some data from you so when you’re faced with ads they might be more effective.
They’re still collecting data that helps them sell ads.
This still causes you to have a Google account and probably use it for other purposes too, during some of which you will see ads.
Unfortunately this seems all to plausible. Despite Firefox and ad blocking in general, there’s very few services that rival Google’s Android and (in my opinion) none that can honestly rival Maps at present.
I rarely use Google Maps (you really should check out OpenStreetMap and OsmAnd), but I use Android and YouTube a lot.
Can you tell/show me how/where I can use OSM as a replacement for Google Maps. I’ve given OsmAnd a try and found it lacking.
I ran a few tests such as searching for my local library. Unfortunately I had to use the exact wording (“Stadtbibliothek”) rather than simpler, more common wording (“Bibliothek”). The Google map found it immediately. Similarly I searched for a local Café, which I easily found in Google Maps (despite not capitalising anything). Meanwhile the business is not present in OSM, despite being the most popular Café in my town.
Additionally navigation doesn’t work for me for regions I haven’t downloaded. How would I go about getting it to work for navigation to places further afield that I haven’t downloaded?
OsmAnd is great. You should try Organic Maps. I’ve had better luck with the search.
I had similar results to you. In my case the deal breaker was navigation, because I need to be able to make changes to the route on the fly which these apps don’t allow. In fact, you need to tap like ten times through menus to finish a trip and search for something else.
Anscheinend funktioniert “Bücherei” als Suchbegriff, “Bibliothek” nur, wenn das im Namen vorkommt.
OSM-Daten sind genau so gut, wie Freiwillige sie gemacht haben. :/ In meiner Gegend sehr vollständig, aber das liegt auch daran, dass ich daran mitgewirkt habe.
OsmAnd ist grundsätzlich eine Offline-Kartenanwendung, d.h. du musst die Karten von den Gebieten, die dich interessieren, herunterladen. Dafür, dass sie “on-demand” heruntergeladen werden wie bei Google Maps, haben sie wohl nicht die Ressourcen. Ist aber auch besser für die Privatsphäre.
Anscheinend funktioniert “Bücherei” als Suchbegriff, “Bibliothek” nur, wenn das im Namen vorkommt.
Leider ein Beispiel, warum der Ansatz von OSM zwar gut ist, aber das derzeitige Produkt leider nicht auf dem Niveau des Platzhirsches ist.
OSM-Daten sind genau so gut, wie Freiwillige sie gemacht haben.
Ist bei Google Maps grundsätzlich an vielen Stellen genauso, aber die User-Basis ist vielfach größer.
Dafür, dass sie “on-demand” heruntergeladen werden wie bei Google Maps, haben sie wohl nicht die Ressourcen.
Leider noch ein Beispiel, wie die Funktionalität leidet. Für eine anstehende, längere Fahrt in den Urlaub müsste ich also das Kartenmaterial quer durch Europe runterladen. Das ist leider für mich nicht praktikabel und wieder ein Punkt, der den etablierten Marktführer weiter auf dieser Position verweilen lässt.
Bitte nicht falsch verstehen; ich würde gerne weniger auf Google-Dienste zurückgreifen und tue das an vielen Stellen (Mail, Cloud-Storage, Kalender, Browser) auch erfolgreich. Gerade Maps hat aber einfach keine ansatzweise gleichwertige Alternative, die nicht gleich zum Hobby wird.
In der Zeit vor digitaler Technik musste man sich auch Straßenkarten der Gegenden, durch die man fährt, kaufen. Es gibt in OsmAnd auch “reine Straßenkarten” im Gegensatz zu “Standardkarten”, bei den ersten sind weniger Details drin und sie sind dafür weniger groß, z.B. für ganz Deutschland anscheinend 2440.80 MB.
Ich mach Google Maps am Smartphone deutlich seltener auf als OsmAnd. Google Maps verwende ich vor allem im Browser wegen der 3D-Ansicht.
Ich bin alt genug, um der Stolze Besitzer eines ADAC-Straßenatlasses zu sein; mittlerweile leider hoffnungslos veraltet :-)
I wonder what percentage of people access Gmail and Calendar through third party frontends in 2025. I would bet the number is very low.
