People seem to be forgetting the mod reminder, and I’m tired of deleting posts and banning people and I do not want to lock the thread, so here is a reminder of the reminder.
Edit: Well, this is what happens when people can’t play nice. I’m locking this thread and taking out the trash.
Hot take:
The problem isn’t the other middle class people who’ve been convinced to wear a different color hat.
The problem is the oligarchs who’ve been plotting to take over and destroy the power of the people by dismantling the government. The people who are actively doing that exact thing while the ignorant masses engage in tribalism and attacking people for voting.
Engaging on this topic is just furthering the distraction tactics. The people who’re actively working to destroy the government or implementing policies targeting minority populations are not your neighbors or anybody that you will run into on social media.
Ok but I still partially blame the people who voted the oligarchs into power
Sure, but as a leftist who grew up in a deep red area, I can tell you that those people are, largely, uneducated and ignorant.
It is because of that ignorance that they’re able to believe the lies that led them to acting the way that they did. The people who bear the majority of the responsibility and blame are the ones who know that they’re taking advantage of and cultivating that ignorance.
I get to hear, in real time, the propaganda engine work on these people (which includes most of my family). I see how topics are framed, by media personalities, into palatable actions. As I’m writing this, there’s a podcast playing at my job, where DOGE is being celebrated for finding ‘fraud and abuse’. I know, for a fact, that the listeners don’t have a high school education and have no idea how the government’s payment systems work… but the radio is telling them that DOGE is doing good work.
So, how can they know any better? These are not people who’re ever going to continue their education and their media literacy skills were developed in the 80s. They’re simply not equipped to handle the scale of lying that exists in the modern world.
On the other hand, the person talking, has multiple degrees and has served in the federal government. That person KNOWS they’re lying but continue to do so because it is profitable. I find people like that to be far more culpable. They’re lying for profit (grifting, to use an over used term) and their lies reach millions of voters.
Then you have the people who benefit from the lies. Trump and Elon know that they’re dealing with ignorant people, they know exactly how to use populist rhetoric at public events. While, in private, they’re using the power that they’ve obtained to corruptly enrich themselves and their sycophants.
Direct your ire at the people who’re actively profiting off of lies and corruption. Help to educate the other people around you when they’re being fed lies.
Attacking your neighbor while Elon and Trump ransack the government is not only pointless, it’s completely counter-productive and ensures that we’ll never unify against this kind of power grab.
I live in the state that gave Trump his highest margin of victory, so I have seen what you describe many times.
My friend listened to punk music and played in punk bands. He was very conservative politically. I hadn’t seen him in a while and we decided to go to a show hours away and catch up. We had stopped talking politics to preserve our friendship. We were on our way back from the show, listening to Rancid, and I couldn’t stand it anymore. I was like “hey man, you love this music, but do you not hear the lyrics? How can you say the things you say?” I didn’t know he had changed.
He had been doing survey work for a mining company for years. He explained that after he got out of that job, everything became clear. He wasn’t conservative anymore, in fact he had become progressive.
He explained that when he worked with nothing but hard right conservatives, with Fox News on all day, it seeped into his brain and corrupted him.
This is an intelligent man I’m talking about. He was a victim of propaganda and was smart enough to realize it once he was away from it.
This is always on my mind:
"“We won the evangelicals. We won with young. We won with old. We won with highly educated. We won with poorly educated. I love the poorly educated.”
Trump said this at a speech in Nevada during the primary in 2016, and people cheered.
Ignorance is no excuse.
What if the system is designed to keep you ignorant?
If you want to come to that conclusion in a political postmortem 20 years from now I’d fully encourage it.
The problem is that right now the house is burning down and shaming people for playing with matches won’t save us.
Naw, I’ll judge people based on a person to person basis and not just use generalized lazy ass blanket judgement on anyone whom isnt in my social/political/religious group. Stop adding to the problem.
Sure, but Trump voters aren’t a lazy generalization.
We supported Trump because we believe that Biden’s policies have had a detrimental impact on our country. Over the past four years, those of us who work hard for a living have faced significant challenges. Inflation has skyrocketed to the point where basic necessities like housing, food, and healthcare are out of reach for many. My son, for example, would have to work far harder than I ever did just to afford rent. We voted for a better future for the working class.
In contrast, the previous administration has shown a lack of morals, ethics, and compassion for humanity. The support of actions that led to the loss of countless Palestinian lives raises serious ethical concerns. It’s important to reflect on how Biden’s actions impact the world and the people who suffer as a result. Blaming a president who is advocating for the wellbeing of hardworking Americans misses the larger issue at hand. It’s essential to focus on the real challenges facing our nation, rather than directing blame toward individuals who are working to create a better future for the people of this country.
If you’re paying any attention, you’d be seeing you’ll get nothing but precisely the opposite of what you claimed you voted for. Given Trump’s history, you have no leg to stand on believing that liar.
You possess a unique perspective that many of us do not have, as it seems you are able to foresee the future. However, it’s important to acknowledge that Trump is following through on the promises he made, while Biden has not delivered in the same way. In his final actions, Biden prioritized securing the well-being of his family and ensuring their safety. In contrast, it often appears that Biden’s focus has not been on the American people or their interests.
Trump enriched the rich at the expense of the working person, just like he did in his first term. There are a million other things I could point out but I doubt you’d listen to a single one of them
I respectfully disagree. The working class experienced significant gains during the Trump administration, and the past four years under Biden’s leadership have been particularly challenging. These are the facts based on the experiences of many and the main reason Trump is now president. It’s important to recognize that the wealthiest individuals often remain insulated from the hardships faced by hardworking Americans, and they do not endure the same struggles as those in the labor force. Essentially they always win!
I’m not going to argue with you because there’s enough other people doing that. What I am interested though is a few statistics about yourself to compare to what you’re saying.
You claim to be part of a group who " works hard for a living"
Just wondering what your line of work is and yearly income.
Have you always voted conservative? does your family vote conservative or are you the outlier?
What social media platforms do you use?.
What region of the USA do you live in? Normally blue/ red?
Thanks!
would you also like my bank account username and password?
Nope, was just hoping to understand your side of things a bit more, some context into how your opinions were formed. But clearly you’re not interested in any type of discussion.
Requesting that I provide personal information on a form before engaging in a discussion can come across as presumptuous. This is why I responded humorously to the question.
I 100% agree with your critiques, but I don’t see how Trump was going to solve them. However, I’m pretty disappointed that you’re at -20 at the time I’m making this comment (thanks blue maga groupthink), so I’m upvoting you to try and turn the tide. But all standards, you have a well written comment that should not be downvoted into oblivion.
This reaction is fairly common on Lemmy; when users disagree, they often downvote. However, the joke is on them, as I don’t concern myself with negative votes—what truly matters to me is fostering meaningful dialogue. Ultimately, Lemmy tends to function as a collection of small echo chambers.
I was once a Democrat, but after the way Bernie Sanders was treated, I can no longer align myself with the party. I would have supported Sanders over Trump, and I believe many others would have as well.
This is interesting because the two men have nothing in common.
What they have in common is a call for change. Unfortunately, we are often limited to just two choices in the political process.
I would have supported Sanders over Trump
This is it, right here. The DNC needs this rammed through their skulls until they understand it.
It still doesn’t make sense to me to vote for Trump given what you’ve said though-- he’s radical, but in precisely the wrong way to achieve your stated goals.
Bernie Sanders was often labeled as “radical” by his critics. However, living in the United States over the past four years has led many to seek alternative options for addressing the country’s challenges. If you’ve been following the ongoing issues at the Social Security Building? particularly regarding Social Security and retirement systems, it’s clear that reforms are needed. Immediate action is required to ensure the sustainability of Social Security for future retirees.
The problem is you misunderstand macroeconomics on a fundamental level if you think the policies proposed by Trump or the actions taken by Trump so far will in fact bring down prices.
I get why you hoped he was telling the truth but if you ever had taken even intro macro you would know enough to doubt what he’s saying.
If you think Trump is more moral than Biden I’d ask why you think the guy who raped people and admitted to intentionally walking in on teenaged girls changing clothes because he could was more moral because that’s just bizarre.
If President Biden’s macroeconomic policies have contributed to the current inflation, it may be time to reevaluate and implement new macroeconomic strategies.
If you are a liberal don’t care about your opinion.
