Don’t know. Don’t care. Playing games about hidden meanings gets me to stop texting you.
Why so angry?
/s
Where I live Hahaha is kind of sarcastic and rude, ahahaha is like a cool and sincere lol.
Ahahahachoo!
What general location is this??
Germany
Figures
The last time I was dating someone, she texted me to ask if we were still on for our date the next day. I replied with a thumbs up emoji and some additional text saying I was excited about seeing her again.
When we got together for the date, she asked if I was mad at her about something. I didn’t understand, so I asked why she would think that. She explained that the thumbs up emoji is used as a passive aggressive insult now.
👍
She explained that the thumbs up emoji is used as a passive aggressive insult now.
That sounds exhausting. If my friends start interpreting thumbs up that way, I’ll just have to get new friends.
Edit: None of my business what someone else accepts in their friend circle.
I think she picked it up from her students. She’s a professor at a university, so is hooked in a little bit more to the Gen Z culture. Unfortunately she can’t just replace her students, as much as she’d like to sometimes 🙂
Haha. Fair enough!
If we mix OP and your comment together:
👍.
Is violently aggressive
Weird, I use that frequently
🙂 is only sent by psychopaths who are already planning out your murder
If absolutely necessary use 🙃 or 🤗 instead
I still send =), =D, and =P.
I’ll just go ahead and get in my coffin now.
omg, you use = for eyes, you sick fuck?
I know. I have a problem. =(
Oh I should totally start reusing these! Thanks =D
Upside down smiley is used as like a smile-through-the-pain, everything is fucked kind of reaction, similar to melty smiley. Similarly the blushing smiley is usually deployed ironically. Or maybe my friends are just really sarcastic haha
Hm interesting, I’ve seen 🫠 used for what you describe. Here people only use 🙃 when they really want to send a simple smile emoji for some reason.
What’s the blushing smiley?
I’m tired of people reading text from me, interpreting emotions that don’t exist, then getting mad at me for it.
I don’t like your sarcastic attitude
Lol
What do you mean by that
How dare you
First of all, how dare you! Second of all, what give you the right? And third of all, who do you think you are?
Reading in emotions to text to such an extent that normal punctuation is seen as a negative is rather juvenile.
No need to yell 😖
Damn how old is the average Lemmy user? The amount of people (allegedly) using and expecting perfect punctuation when texting scares me. I never put periods after one-liners except for nuance and if someone else does it looks weird. Depends on the person obviously, for example when my mom texts me I know I shouldnt put much thought into such details.
When my mom texts me, she signs every message lol.
-NotMyOldRedditName
Captain Raymond Holt approves of this.
🤣🤣🤣 I had to Google that, but yes, he definitely approves.
Imagine that…
- Tryin to make a change :-\
My parents or rarely messaged folks precede a message by “Hey [my name],
<br>(Actual message content)”.It kinda tilts me as it’s a chat and not an email and I dislike the mixing of those two medium
If it’s my first message to someone or first message in a long time I’ll start by saying who I am just in case they’ve changed numbers or lost my contact info or whatever. But obviously I’m not going to do that every few weeks/months
That’s reasonable.
My dad doesnt do that and preceeds every message chain with a greeting.
He doesnt do it in a short term context but if a message is longer than (feels like 3 weeks), there will be a greeting.Not infuriating but it does kinda grind my gears ;)
I assume we’re all over 40.
Seems weird to me too, I first started texting around 2005 when I finally got a cell phone. When I saw full punctuation I felt like I was getting scolded.
Perhaps related, but when communicating over the radio (including via digital printing modes like RTTY) you have to declare that you’re done transmitting and yield the frequency to the other party. This is because your signal may fade, appearing to the other person like you stopped transmitting. This is the purpose of the ubiquitous “over” seen in movies and TV, though in ham circles you use the more casual “go ahead” or “back to you”.
I imagine a period sends the same message, but because you don’t have to manage turn-taking with texts the way you do on the radio the period can be seen as redundant because they already know you’re done speaking. So sending a period may seem like you’re emphasizing the finality of your message.
In radio, you signal the end of a contact (QSO) with “out”, but again, in ham circles you just say “73”.
Is any of this relevant? I have no idea I’ve been up since 1 AM this morning.
I’ve never heard of OP’s convention. But if I had to guess, it’s this:
-
It’s slow to input text on an onscreen keyboard compared to a physical one.
-
Mobile vendors try to reduce the number of keystrokes via predictive text and other tweaks in their onscreen keyboard software.
-
One common optimization (which I do not like and have off) is to try to reduce the effort to terminate a a sentence.
-
On iOS’s keyboard, tapping space twice inserts a period, then space. This is an easy action to perform.
-
I would assume that many iOS users are thus trained to only terminate sentences this way, and not to explicitly use periods. A trailing period requires extra effort and an unusual keystroke.
-
As a result, iOS users tend not to put in the extra effort, and so their sentences tend not to have a trailing period if not followed by a subsequent sentence.
-
For these users, the norm then becomes to omit a period on the final sentence, and so explicitly adding it looks like the user has gone out of their way to specially add punctuation. The trailing period then acquires semantic value, meaning.
I expect that the whole thing stemmed from some random engineer at Apple just banging away trying to get average typing speed up, not spending a lot of time thinking about any linguistic or social impact.
It could also be that Microsoft or Google do that by default — but I don’t use their default onscreen keyboards, and the descriptions I can find online of their default behavior sounds like they don’t.
My Galaxy S25 does the double space inserts a period thing, even with as much predictive text as I can disabled.
Duck Duck Go’s AI suggestion is:
To enable the double space period feature on the Samsung keyboard, go to Settings > General Management > Language and input > On-screen keyboard > Samsung Keyboard > Smart typing, and ensure that the “Auto spacing” option is turned on. If the feature is not working, you may need to reset the keyboard settings to default or clear the keyboard’s cache.
EDIT: This (presumably) human, about older versions of the Galaxy:
https://www.techbone.net/samsung/user-manual/auto-punctuate
Tap on Settings
Tap on General management
Tap on Samsung Keyboard settings
Tap on More typing options
Enable or disable Double tap space bar to add period
-
I think it is honestly really pathetic that so many of you claim to love language and yet what you really love is having a rigid form of interaction that you can shame people for not perfectly following or reacting intuitively to.
Language is ALWAYS a negotiation, if you dismiss people that interpret your sentences without a period as passive-aggressive, YOU are the one that loses because you have undermined the basic premise of communicating with others in favor of the comforting idea that there are a perfect set of unchanging abstract rules that can be applied to communication that delineate a “correct” way to do things.
There are no rules to language, language is not decided by a committee, language is a living breathing thing that does not give a fuck about your condescending attempt to lock it in stone and direct it towards being used as a tool to shame others with.
You don’t get to decide what people react to and don’t react to in your language.
Oddly enough, I don’t claim to really love language for the sake of language, but it’s pretty useful in my day to day so I try to use it well. I like your post, so, in the spirit of negotiation let’s use the term baseline instead of rules.
The bulk of educational and informational works on the English language gives us a kind of baseline for our written language. When someone deviates from that baseline, most of the time we can still understand them because we can see how it differs and can infer their intent based on context and that baseline.
The dictionaries, style guides, and grammar texts that give us our baseline exist to facilitate written communication, not stifle it. They’re the result of hundreds of years of these kinds of negotiations, not just arbitrary choice as so many people claim. Good grammar isn’t just a cudgel to beat the creativity out of kids, it’s the benefit of centuries’ worth of experience and study. Just as new ideas shouldn’t be dismissed out of hand, we also shouldn’t disregard past practice simply on the basis of it’s age.
Baselines do change. But it’s a slow process, not every popular new deviation will stand the test of time, and many antique forms are still present in our modern language. Think of it like scientific progress. Some ideas are validated by experimentation, others are proven wrong. Our understanding of the universe is more complex now than centuries ago, but there are still numerous constants that have been proven time after time. Our language has grown more complex too, but that doesn’t mean that some very old ideas about how to communicate in writing aren’t still useful today.
But you’re very, very right about shame and reactions, and I’d be dishonest not to admit that. It’s too easy for armchair grammarians to treat language as if it exists in a logic vacuum separate from human emotion, and that’s simply not the case.
Omitting a period from a text isn’t a crime, I freely admit that I’m often a grumpy old asshole about this sort of thing when I shouldn’t be, and you’re 100% correct that people shouldn’t be shamed over it.
At the same time, the reverse is also true. Not every plea for punctuation and grammar is creative or ideological tyranny, and if some people react poorly to a text that omits punctuation, that’s not something the author has a say in either.
At any rate, I hope this comes of as intended, a genuine, if overly lengthy explanation from someone who supports the widespread use of punctuation, and not just Grandpa Simpson yelling at a cloud. =)
I agree so much and I love it. I love texting. I love adjusting my language and tone to fit the social setting I am in. Or break it on purpose. And it’s so incredible that just by texting a person you’ve just recently made contact with you can find out soo much about their social setting, life, their circles and beliefs and attitudes. The closer I get to people the more memes and stickers I use to communicate. And usually by their choice of memes and stickers tell me a lot about them too.
Language is amazeballs. I sincerely hope that when my daughter grows up she will be able to switch to the most insane gibberish that will sound like random ass code to me when talking to her friends. And hopefully switch back to be understandable when talking with me.
If people react poorly to correct grammar that’s on them not me.
Yes! Preach! Same with new words. Every generation gets angry with the next generation using new words but you don’t get to decide how I use words. I will adhere to certain rules so we can keep understanding each other but all the members of the commission will have to be willing to rewrite the rules if the language has changed.
Thank you! It’s sad this comment is so far down. This has been one of the most confusing group of responses I’ve read on the fediverse so far. So many angry and unmovable people who sound like they don’t communicate with humans.
Saving this for the next time I could you use scathing takedown.
As the other person says it’s the same with new words and people looking down on the next generation like theirs didn’t do the same. I love that language evolves, always something to learn. Better than shouting at clouds, which should be Lemmy’s tagline.
I’m glad that full stops are now passive aggressive, because that’s been my intent all along.
OK.
K.
“K” works best without a period. It is literally the lowest effort acknowledgement possible while ensuring that you contribute absolutely nothing in return.
K
Yes, exactly like that!
There’s actually a name for people who perceive proper punctuation as being passive aggressive. They’re called “morons.”
Edit: in the name of further research I asked my wife, who is a non-punctuation texter, what she thought about this. Here’s what I got.
Results of Conversation with Mrs. jubilationtcornpone
Me: “If someone sent you a message that had a period at the end, would you think they were angry with you?”
Her: “Like now? No. When I was younger? Yes.”
Me: “Why would you think that when you were younger?”
Her: “Hmmm. I don’t really know. I guess because women tend to read between the lines, even if there’s nothing there. And because people like to have something to complain about and little miscommunications are an easy target.”
Me: “Ok. So why doesn’t it bother you now?”
Her: “Probably because I met you and you always use punctuation. You know <mutual friends husband>? She knows when he’s mad at her just based on specific words he uses in texts or just the way he says something.”
Me: “So if you start using punctuation, I should be concerned?”
Her: “Like if I say “I’m fine.” With a period and everything?”
Me: “Yes.”
Her: “Yeah. That means I’m not fine.”
Me: “That’s a lot of pressure to put on a period.”
Her: “True.”
Me: “But you already know I’m going to infer nothing from that. I probably won’t even notice.”
Her: “Yeah. I know. That’s why l would just tell you.”
Me: “Fair enough.”
Her: “You’re just one of those people who says exactly what they mean. There’s no cryptic message or anything.”
Me: “That’s what I’m talking about!”
Her: “It is kind of nice actually.”
This was fascinating and amusing. If you and the Mrs start a podcast, let us know so we can subscribe.
What is “proper punctuation”? Isn’t it context dependent?
Not every instance of written language is written in complete sentences.
A sign that says “SALE” is normal, but a sign that says “Sale.” would be unusual, maybe some kind of marketing or design choice.
Social convention around IMs and chat rooms in the early versions of live chat, in the 90’s, capitalization and punctuation were not ordinarily used. Multiple sentences per message were also not the norm.
Text messages have always been somewhere between 90’s style IMs (uncapitalized and unpunctuated phrases, not full sentences) and a full email message (full salutations and signatures). The convention depends on the context, and autocorrect has changed what is or isn’t normal.
So a text message response that says “that’s fine” conveys a distinct message from one that says “That’s fine.”
That’s how human communication works. Trying to start every text message with “Dear Jake,” and ending it with “Sincerely, Raymond Holt” would be weird.
That weirdness is, of course, the whole joke about Holt starting and ending his texts that way.
At the end of the day, despite my spending way too much time in this thread defending the mandatory use of periods, I have to admit that it doesn’t really matter how you write a text to your friends.
But proper grammar is important when you need to communicate clearly with a large audience who might not be aware of the colloquialisms and informal conventions you’re used to and it’s better to have a strict system of rules to make sure everyone can understand. Which is why primary and secondary schools teach the English language and an overall decline in literacy is cause for concern.
So yeah, context is important, but there are many contexts where proper grammar is required.
No, they’re called people who know how to write, as the point of writing is to communicate ideas and emotions, not to be a pedant about ever changing rules.
The rule hasn’t changed.
There may be an informal convention among some people that using a period at the end of the last sentence in a text is passive aggressive, but it’s far from universal and far from being a rule.
Seems like it’s just as pedantic to expect people who have habitually used correct punctuation for decades to adopt this convention without ever being told and then blaming them for not abandoning an immensely useful part of written language for no apparent reason.
Idk, but this definitely isn’t new. I’m 31 and have been removing periods from texts for a decade to help convey tone. It’s like how women use (over use?) exclamation points in emails, because periods come across as aggressive and curt. The same is true in text, but instead of exclamation points, I’m able to just leave a sentence without punctuation so it doesn’t come across as angry, annoyed, or frank.
This has been well documented for a long time, but true media literacy dictates you try to ignore these rules in texts from Gen X and Boomers, otherwise they’re going to come across as very rude over text with their periods and ellipses.
You eventually restated my point. It’s a convention used among a portion of the population, documented in articles and studies, but not taught or a part of formal grammar.
At some point a set of fairly strict rules is important for a written language, as your point with Gen X and Boomers helps to illustrate, because it makes sure you can be understood by a broader audience when clarity is required. Punctuation is a fundamental part of that.
Omitting periods in text is a technilogical colloquialism. I’m not arguing that. But that doesn’t mean, as the poster that I first replied to implied, that people who omit periods from texts are the only ones who “know how to write”.
Over-use of exclamation points is another poor habit, since they can mark something that’s important regardless of it being a positive or negative. With quoted speech it could be something that’s either angry or joyful. Using them to convey a non-threatening tone shouldn’t be required. I get that it is in some cases, and I belive that indicates a problem with our overall literacy and a renewed misogyny in the workplace.
Whether this is a result of the medium of communication or a decline in literacy is up for debate, but word choice and context should do the bulk of conveying tone and relying on punctuation for that purpose understandably looks like an indicator of poor literacy.
At some point a set of fairly strict rules is important for a written language
Given that English has become the lingua franca without having a strict set of rules, reality would say otherwise. If a strict set of rules was that important then French would be the most commonly used language.
Over-use of exclamation points is another poor habit, since they can mark something that’s important regardless of it being a positive or negative. With quoted speech it could be something that’s either angry or joyful. Using them to convey a non-threatening tone shouldn’t be required. I get that it is in some cases, and I belive that indicates a problem with our overall literacy and a renewed misogyny in the workplace.
You realize that its just you who’s having problems? You are claiming that other people have literacy problems, when they communicate with each other just fine, and it’s you who are struggling to communicate effectively. They are not having problems with being misinterpreted, just you are.
Whether this is a result of the medium of communication or a decline in literacy is up for debate, but word choice and context should do the bulk of conveying tone and relying on punctuation for that purpose understandably looks like an indicator of poor literacy.
No, people insist on strict rules so that they don’t have to change or learn new things, and can blame other people when they communicate poorly. The English language constantly changes, and authors constantly break the “rules” that your elementary school teacher taught you to effectively communicate ideas. That has literally always been the case, from Shakespeare, through Cormack McCarthy, to the past several decades of online communication.
You seem to think a centralized style and grammar book like the French have is the only way to have strict set of grammatical rules.
An overwhelming number of English textbooks and stylebooks agree on the use of a period. We’re not talking about something esoteric here, it’s how you end a sentence. Omitting them is poor writing. Claiming artistic licence or understandability doesn’t change that in the vast majority of cases. I’m not calling those who omit them baby-killers or anything. It’s just poor writing that people have grown accustomed to seeing.
Writers like McCarthy, Twain, and Joyce have the chops to communicate exceptionally well despite breaking these rules, not just because they broke them. The people in the office next to yours mangling emails don’t.
And literacy rates are on the decline in the US. Take that however you will.
The rule hasn’t changed.
Can you point me to this institution that decides on the rules of the English language? What’s it’s address? Where does it publish these rules?
There may be an informal convention among some people that using a period at the end of the last sentence in a text is passive aggressive, but it’s far from universal and far from being a rule.
It is a natural result of reading both versions, noticing that one sounds more formal and has a sharp ending, and noticing that since you can write either one, if they’re ending it sharply they must be doing so intentionally. If you use the full availability of communication options available, it inherently sends that signal, if you follow rules for the sake of following rules though, then it limits that option so doesn’t send that signal.
Seems like it’s just as pedantic to expect people who have habitually used correct punctuation for decades to adopt this convention without ever being told and then blaming them for not abandoning an immensely useful part of written language for no apparent reason.
You had literally decades to adjust and change, this isn’t new, it’s been the case since at least the early 00s when cell phones and instant messengers became a thing.
You first.
YOU made the initial claim about this “new” meaning, onus is therefore on you to substantiate it.
For my defense, I’ll start with Elements of Style, the OECD, and any other English dictionary or grammar book.
Because if you really want to play “who has the best evidence for their case”, you’re gonna lose to several hundred years, and
millionsbillions of written documents.So you’ll point to a variety of different and conflicting sources?
The English language naturally evolves over time. You getting butthurt about improving your communication style accomplishes nothing.
Show me where those sources conflict on the use of a period.
Show me where they state that their rules are meant for informal communication.
Literally, read a fucking book.
You learned this shit at school. Did you think your teacher was making it up on the fly?
At school they teach you common rules of thumb for the English language, and formal writing styles for communicating in academic settings. Famously, and unlike French, the English language does not have hard set rules, and book writers constantly break the ones you’re taught in elementary school to more effectively communicate their ideas, or speak in a desired voice.
If somone struggles to understand what someone else means if they use proper punctuation, that sounds like illiteracy.
If someone struggles with understanding context, they are probably a sea beast.
So “full stop” means a Period, right? A period is a period, PERIOD. That’s all it is. It ends a sentence, so you start a new one. It doesn’t contain any emotional ammunition. It certainly isnt passive aggressive, that’s just stupid.
What’s next? Are we going to start debating the tyranny of the comma, or the righteous indignation of the semi-colon?
Or maybe we should be debating the infiltration of our written communications by Big Emoji? They’re obviously behind all of this, trying to encourage more emoji use, to stuff their coffers with that sweet emoji revenue.
Calm the fuck down, people.
So “full stop” means a Period, right? A period is a period, PERIOD. That’s all it is. It ends a sentence, so you start a new one. It doesn’t contain any emotional ammunition. It certainly isnt passive aggressive, that’s just stupid.
.
Spoiler: I agree with you.
Looking at the responses. This post is ragebait lnao
Correcting people’s gammar has always been a surprisingly contentious issue.
gammar
That’s bait
I said nothing about spelling, lol.
Everything on the Internet is rage bait. Take your lame edgy take elsewhere. We’re here for the debate.
It’s really only a “full stop” when it’s the last or only sentence, not just any sentence with a period. It’s related to phones only adding the period if you hit space twice. So by default, single sentences never have it because you don’t continue typing. So actually putting it in is intentional for many people and they are in fact making a statement akin to “this is my final word on the matter”.
It’s the difference between
“Can you help me with this?” “No”
And
“Can you help me with this?” “No.”
That extra “.” after “No” wasn’t strictly necessary, so by including it on purpose, you’re making a statement. That’s the general thought process going on with people who find it passive aggressive.
You can also go back even further to T9 typing and texting shorthand and see that punctuation was largely ignored due to message size limitations and difficulties typing on a phone in general. It’s something that has evolved over time due to the medium. The main issue is people who have gone through this transition see it one way, and people who are used to more formal writing suddenly joining the internet see it another way. I would say it’s more like regional accents. Both are correct depending on context.
The only reason your phone doesn’t add the punctuation in for you like it does the automatic capitalization of the first letter is because it can’t tell when you’ve finished your complete thought.
I’ll never let lazy cunts tell me I’m being passive aggressive for using goddamn proper punctuation. I’ll be actively aggressive about that.
edit:
Can anybody in this thread who actively omits periods in texts specifically because of the negative connotations explain to me why they think that having that be a normal convention is actually good?
Like, why would anybody want an option to sign off their texts with a passive aggressive slant? I can’t wrap my head around it.
The firm believers in the whole “language is constantly evolving and has no rules” thing would probably not like it if future generations decided fuck using punctuation altogether. No commas, no questions marks, no paragraph breaks. It’s easier for them because they normally communicate in five dimensional haptic virtual reality where punctuation is an anachronistic holdover. How come you aren’t on board with their wacky language rules?
I don’t give a shit if you don’t use punctuation in texts or not, that’s entirely on you and I don’t judge people for using shortcuts, but fuck if I’m going to let someone tell me using a period to end my sentences indicates anything other than “I have finished my thought / I have finished speaking.”.
Because it can signal annoyance? It’s almost like having more possible meanings adds depth to conversation. The end of a text is already final enough, so a period doesn’t add any functionality that way unless you somehow believe someone got raptured mid sentence and still hit send.
It’s like if you asked someone, “How are you?” And they said “I’m fine” or “I’m fine.” or “I’m fine!” or “I’m fine?” or “I’m fine…”
It signals different connotations and tones for all five. Period is no longer default since they aren’t required, so they have taken on additional meaning
You know they’re exactly the same thing right ? Only north americans use the term “period”.
Old English used stops liberally, they were used in place of commas and semi-colons as well, it was called a full stop at the end of the sentence.
Nope, you end a sentence with period. Period. That’s just basic punctuation, like starting a sentence with a capital letter.
Look, I explained how it developed and why it’s used that way. I also explained the difference between a “full stop” and a “period”. If your reading comprehension is that terrible, maybe don’t get involved in discussions about linguistics because it clearly went right over your simple minded little head.
I have excellent reading comprehension skills, and I understand everything you wrote, and I stand by my response.
And I said it without being a prick, too.
You really didnt
No, you were a prick who talked past them.
They very clearly and calmly explained the dynamics of both sides of this debate, and you responded by inanely reiterating your original point which they obviously already understood.
I’m not “talking past” anyone, I was simply reiterating my basic point, which is all that needs to be said. He can talk all he wants, and it still doesn’t change the basic fact that a sentence should always ends with a Period (or some other punctuation), no matter what common usage at the time.
And more importantly, the idea that a Period carries emotional baggage like Passive Aggression is silly, and self-indulgent. Nobody should have to think about you that much that they should worry whether you’ll be offended by a period. If you require that much emotional maintenance that it extends to punctuation, then you are just a giant pain in the ass to everyone around you, and you need to grow up and get a life.
Lmao, you keep acting like other people perceiving you as an asshole is a them problem when it is literally just a you problem.
It’s been 30 fucking years, learn how to text.
It does.
A lot of arguing one way or the other here but when my wife starts ending texts with periods I know im fucked.
Those rules are cringe, and you can safely tell them to suck your passive aggressive butthole.
If you insist on interpreting my use of punctuation in a text as anything other than an effort to communicate clearly, I’m likely to start being passive aggressive at some point.
…but how should I interpret your passive aggressiveness if I should interpret your use of punctuation as no more than an effort to communicate clearly?
It’s fine, I don’t care
I’ll just do it the way everyone else wants to, I guess I don’t need to use periods, not like my opinion matters anyway
“Ah, an em-dash. You must be an AI.”
